Comments on: Let’s Talk Dowry

By: Janet

Janet — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:29:42 +0000

Dowry – even the British way is changing, mostly the girls parents do not pay for all the wedding ceremony costs, as things become more expensive it is normal to find the prospective groom, his parents and the bride and her parents all chiping in for the celebrations.

By: wee wee

wee wee — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:06:58 +0000

hi everyone but one thing i want to add is that it’s not all diaries that are devilish for economy or so old. in my tribe for examples the good that you give return back to your wife. usually it alcohol not more than 12 bottles for the price they cost in africa it is nthing, plus some jewels for your wife some kitchen furniture and tissus (i mean fabrics) for your wife. in my tribe all that gift is to show that you can really take care of their daughter. in fact in my mother dowry mu parents paid the dowry together and when the dowry was finishing they brought back some items and were refund. i think that in africa the problem is that people want to show they are wealthy they lend money too much. and after start crying that they get poor. GUYS ORGANISE THE MARIAGE YOU CAN AFFORD. PLZ

By: JKE

JKE — Wed, 15 Feb 2006 15:48:00 +0000

Dear anonymous, first of all, the plural of Mzungu is Wazungu, not M(u)zungus. Secondly, in case you didn't figure that my "comment" above actually refers to a blog entry in my own blog, your comment where you've apparently misunderstood the irony and satire I've tried to express with this dowry issue ("being the traditional person", "having two wives" etc) somehow tells me that while there are some people understanding satire, other are just flabbergasted by my writings and maybe, only maybe, I should apply some (satire) and (/satire) brackets in future. Please check my article and the corresponding pictures within the text to understand that I was actually referring to my two guitars and an ukulele.

By: anonym

anonym — Wed, 15 Feb 2006 08:10:26 +0000

That kikuyumoja dude is a big reason why dowry isn’t such a bad idea. If you end up marrying a goon such as kikuyumoja, then dowry helps. It prevents the idiot from being able too financially afford many wives, or even having high maintenance girlfriends on the side. It is also something to fall back on should the bride leave her husband and return to her parents, something, in the case of the dim-witted goon above is highly likely. Men have also been known to completely abandon thier family, and start a new one. Can’t be that easy if you have to pay dowry each time.
Dowry has also been a way to show a mans commitment. A man who goes as far as to pay dowry shows an ability to provide for his family, and preparedness for married life, responsibility and maturity. I’ve seen plenty of muzungus from europe, U.S, etc pay dowry for their african girlfriends. If they are commited enough, they’ll do it.
In modern urban dwellers, dowry probably will not be in the form of domesticated animals.
Traditionally, a woman leaves her parents home and goes to live with her husband and his family. This is a loss to her family, dowry is a compensation.
Unfortunately there aren’t real laws that protect women in case of divorce. In the west, women get half or more than half of the assets, they get alimony and the children, who end up for the most part living with their mother, get child support and so on. In Africa, dowry is a substitute for all that. It isn’t a backward tradition at all. When I was young and romantic I had afrofeminista’s views, no one was going to pay dowry for me. Now that I’m older and wiser, I’m not so sure.

By: Kikuyumoja’s realm » Blog Archive » me and polyphogamy

Kikuyumoja’s realm » Blog Archive » me and polyphogamy — Fri, 07 Oct 2005 00:20:13 +0000

[…] Today it occurred to me that I will need to tell my esteemed readers something about my private life. You know, some of those juicy details that would never be glamourous enough to make it into high gloss magazines one woud probably be reading at the favourite hairdressing salon. Ndiyo, today I would like to tell you about my polyphogamy.Being a very traditional person, I had managed to make some small deals here and there to eventually cough up enough dowry that would enable me to marry my loved ones. Yes, plural. I am a man with a big heart. Eh, how can I marry one woman only, if at the same time I can AFFORD even more? You see, I am a rich man with a biiiiig car and there’s always enough food at home. Besides, what is it that women require? You will need to pay attention to them, care for them, play with them, give them lots of love and be a nice man all the time. You’ll need to be cool, but still lovely. If you follow those rules, there will be no trouble. Ha! That shouldn’t be too difficult… Now, since I am just 29 years old and still need to earn more money, I’ve settled for only two women right now. As time goes by, there will surely be more women comming along. As a true Kiuk, I am naturally aiming at having nine plus one or maybe also eleven minus one women – all of which would have names like Wanjeri, Wanjiru, Wambui, Wangui, Wangechi…etc….Right now I am at numba one and two. Hey, and…well…you know….a bit of cheating here and there..hmm? aahhh c’mon….you know, a man has his needs from time to time… And beware!—you know the traditions….if a woman decides to leave her husband, he has the right of claiming back all his dowry. Yeah. As I said, I am THE MAN. My two beloved and honoured women at home are very different. As much as I like to have the BIG choice, I’ve managed to get a FAT one (Wanjeri) and a slim one (Wanjiru). Now, those ladies are already keeping me busy. Yes, they require a lot of energy from me and in the last 2-3 months I haven’t been at home that much, so I couldn’t play with them as much as I wanted to. But now I am back and…ohhhhh….I guess you know what that means? Yeah, I am THE MAN. At home, that is. I chose the FAT one because she produces a good sound when I play with her – you know all those aaaahhhs and ooohhhs. And the slim one? She’s not that active, rather passive. Needs a lot of energy to get goin’, but still, a wonderful slim figure and just the right body to suit my eyes. Both of them have a wonderful personality. Very tolerant, open-minded and somehow cosmopolitan. We get along quite well. I love them and they love me. I also love their voices – especially when they sing those lullabys to the child. The child? Yes, we do have a small son. We’ve given him the name "the baby" since we couldn’t find a better name. I already thought about calling him kîhîî but my andû-a-nja agreed that it wouldn’t be too smart to call him that way. Eh, we’re living by the rules of democracy at home. Well, at least I am still the man… Oh! How could I be so rude! The Internet being a visual medium, I forgot about showing you some recent pictures of my loved ones. Sorry! Here they are: my beloved wifes and our son. Enjoy! 🙂 (~speaking of gender-based issues – please make sure to check out this nice website I’ve just come accross) […]

By: HASH

HASH — Thu, 11 Aug 2005 03:43:13 +0000

Fuego, good to hear your side, thanks for chiming in. I think we’re all in a good deal of agreement on the usefulness of the dowry practice.

I think it would be great to hear from someone who really believes in the dowry practice, I’m sure there are some traditionalists who have strong arguments for it, but I’m just not sure what those arguments could be.

HASH

By: Morphea

Morphea — Wed, 10 Aug 2005 19:09:15 +0000

I agree on all counts, Afrofeminista. Good thoughts from you.

Fuego, I think you’ve got a good perspective, and your words about holding on to tradition were really moving. Thanks for reminding us, my dear.

I personally wish it weren’t so traditional in the States for the parents to pay for the wedding – either set of parents. Weddings seem like such a blown-up, bloated, sugary princess-day for the bride instead of the sacred joining of two people. It’s one of the Western industries that I really hate. I’ll cut myself off here before I really get going… [smile]

Cerise

By: Fuego!

Fuego! — Mon, 08 Aug 2005 19:07:09 +0000

I am an African American woman and I live in Atlanta, GA. Last November, one of my closest female friends last-minute-invited me to one of her engagement ceremonies–the exchanging of the calabash. Her fiancÃ© is from Sierra Leone, though he has lived in the States for most of his life. He has quite a large network of family here, so there was a concerted efforrt to make sure all the engagement activities (I am told) were as traditional as possible. I had no idea what to expect and blogged about it in depthly here.

I am extremely bothered by the dowry question–but so, too, am I bothered by many of the things that concern matrimony. Anyway…this is quite an intersting post you have here. And Afrofeminista, you have no idea just how many times I have had to drill in to my father, uncles, cousins, grandmother, boyfriends that neither am I a commodity–though dowries were in no way referenced, I find that I fight off this being part of my identity daily. So many…too many things re-enforce the same kind of oppression that it seems, sometimes, as though all the branches of that evil will never be hewn.

What was most peculiar/disturbing to me about the calabash ceremony I attended was just what was inside the calabash. I am a feminist, so when I saw needle and thread, fabric…I almost spoke out. But it was not the time. It is not my life, though I did let my friend read what I wrote about the ceremony. She was not bothered either by the event itself or my remembrance of it–it made her cry, actually, a good cry. She thought it was a really beautiful ceremony, I believe. And I always though her just as vocal and political and feminist as I am–but here she was so in love, and I dare say, afraid to offend her new in-laws, that she never protested once. Not even when her mother opened the envelop containing the payment for her daughter. I cried because the symbolism was much too much for me not to come apart in some slight way. And her mother accepted the money.

So, I guess I just wanted to comment here to say that we sell brown daughters here, in the States, as well. And not for livestock or ghastly amounts of money, but money is money…and it seems as though we do it here to keep alive, in whatever ways we can, a connection to the continent from which we are descendants. If it is African, my friend seemed to believe, I will take whatever I can get so long as it connects me to there–where I’ve never ever been.

By: HASH

HASH — Fri, 05 Aug 2005 12:06:53 +0000

Afrofeminista – thanks for chiming in, and don’t apologize for responding – it’s expected!

It’s good to hear an African woman’s view on the dowry issue. I think you struck the nail on the head – the dowry and one side paying for the whole wedding thing are out dated.

I guess I’m still wondering how often it happens in 21st century Africa though. It has to be still going strong in rural areas right? How about urban? What forms does it manifest itself in?

By: Afrofeminista

Afrofeminista — Fri, 05 Aug 2005 09:35:31 +0000

I think dowry as interpreted today and even as far back as the generation that got married in the ’60s and ’70s, is v. patriarchal and innapropriate. It was meant as a token of two families joining together as a result of this man and woman hooking up. But in typical (read:patriarchal interpretations) it became and has become (yes even in urban areas!) a chance to ‘fleece’, get paid for raising a girl and in some cases – cause untold tension.
I have expressly told my father and all those sneaky uncles, that under no circumstances will dowry -wether it is a goat, cow or sheep be given in exchange for me. I’m not a commodity.
I think also that couples need to start paying for weddings they can afford, to avoid the usual trap of one side paying for this or that! There have been cases of the woman’s family not asking for dowry, only to demand a huge payment either on the actual wedding day, or worse still – disguise it, in the form of requests for ‘transport to wedding’, ‘wedding outfit for bride’s whole family from cucu to new born baby!’.
Sorry didn’t mean to blog on your blog…but the whole dowry thing makes me MAD!